“Ancient World Culture” (SB 2.7.1)

TRANSCRIPT:  Srimad-Bhagavatam, Canto 2, Chapter 7, Text 1. “Ancient World Culture.” Alachua – 1994 / (049)

[Text 1]:  

Lord Brahmā said: When the unlimitedly powerful Lord assumed the form of a boar as a pastime, just to lift the planet earth, which was drowned in the great ocean of the universe called the Garbhodaka, the first demon [Hiraṇyākṣa] appeared, and the Lord pierced him with His tusk.

Purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda:

Since the beginning of creation, the demons and the demigods, or the Vaiṣṇavas, are always the two classes of living beings to dominate the planets of the universes.] Lord Brahmā is the first demigod, and Hiraṇyākṣa is the first demon in this universe. Only under certain conditions do the planets float as weightless balls in the air, and as soon as these conditions are disturbed, the planets may fall down in the Garbhodaka Ocean, which covers half the universe. The other half is the spherical dome within which the innumerable planetary systems exist. The floating of the planets in the weightless air is due to the inner constitution of the globes, and the modernized drilling of the earth to exploit oil from within is a sort of disturbance by the modern demons and can result in a greatly harmful reaction to the floating condition of the earth. A similar disturbance was created formerly by the demons headed by Hiraṇyākṣa (the great exploiter of the gold rush), and the earth was detached from its weightless condition and fell down into the Garbhodaka Ocean. The Lord, as maintainer of the whole creation of the material world, therefore assumed the gigantic form of a boar with a proportionate snout and picked up the earth from within the water of Garbhodaka. Śrī Jayadeva Gosvāmī, the great Vaiṣṇava poet, sang as follows:

vasati daśana-śikhare dharaṇī tava lagnā

 śaśini kalaṅka-kaleva nimagnā

keśava dhṛta-śūkara-rūpa

 jaya jagadīśa hare

“O Keśava! O Supreme Lord who have assumed the form of a boar! O Lord! The planet earth rested on Your tusks, and it appeared like the moon engraved with spots.”

Such is the symptom of an incarnation of the Lord. The incarnation of the Lord is not the concocted idea of fanciful men who create an incarnation out of imagination. The incarnation of the Lord appears under certain extraordinary circumstances like the above-mentioned occasion, and the incarnation performs a task which is not even imaginable by the tiny brain of mankind. The modern creators of the many cheap incarnations may take note of the factual incarnation of God as the gigantic boar with a suitable snout to carry the planet earth.

When the Lord appeared to pick up the earth, the demon of the name Hiraṇyākṣa tried to create a disturbance in the methodical functions of the Lord, and therefore he was killed by being pierced by the Lord’s tusk. According to Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, the demon Hiraṇyākṣa was killed by the hand of the Lord. Therefore his version is that after being killed by the hand of the Lord, the demon was pierced by the tusk. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura confirms this version.

om ajñāna-timirāndhasya

jñānāñjana-śalākayā

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena

tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ 

śrī-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ dadāti sva-padāntikam

Translation:

Lord Brahmā said: When the unlimitedly powerful Lord assumed the form of a boar as a pastime, just to lift the planet earth, which was drowned in the great ocean of the universe called the Garbhodaka, the first demon [Hiraṇyākṣa] appeared, and the Lord pierced him with His tusk. 

This is the summary description of the incarnation of Lord Varāha. Śrīla Prabhupāda has pointed out in other purports that there are two incarnations of Lord Varāha, the red incarnation and the white incarnation, Śveta-varāha. Śrīla Prabhupāda pointed out that in some of the descriptions in the Bhāgavatam, the two incarnations appear to be amalgamated together.  

In any case, in one of these two incarnations, Hiraṇyākṣa, who is mentioned here, was engaging in these activities of apparently exploiting the earth for gold. The earth had fallen down into the Garbhodaka Ocean, and so Lord Varāha appeared to lift the earth from the Garbhodaka Ocean. In the other incarnation of Lord Varāha, the Śveta-varāha incarnation, this incarnation occurred in the beginning of this day of Brahmā. At that time, the earth was beneath the Garbhodaka Ocean. That was the situation which had prevailed during the night of Lord Brahmā. So when Svāyambhuva Manu was manifested from Lord Brahmā... Svāyambhuva Manu, of course, knew that his duty was to generate population and govern the population of the universe.

[5:07] 

It was thus generated. But in order to do this, the earthly planetary system was required. So he spoke to his father, Lord Brahmā, and pointed out that the earth was beneath the waters of devastation. So Lord Brahmā reflected on how the earth could be raised up, and it's described that Lord Varāha appeared at this point. Apparently Lord Varāha emerged from the nose of Brahmā in a very tiny form, and flying through space, He expanded until He had assumed a gigantic form, which was praised by the various great sages who were witnessing these events in the higher planetary systems. Lord Varāha then entered into the Garbhodaka Ocean and lifted up the earth. So that was the other incarnation of Lord Varāha.

The basic setting in which these events take place is that you have the universe, which is described as a hollow area within a series of shells. Within this hollow area, half of the volume is filled with the water of the Garbhodaka Ocean, and the other half consists of the various planetary systems occupying empty space. In the case of the Śveta-varāha incarnation, the earth was underneath the ocean waters. As I mentioned, this was the situation during the night of Brahmā. It's described that the end of the day of Brahmā is a pralaya, in which the... first of all, the earthly planetary system is annihilated by fire. It's described that the sun becomes twelve times as hot as it normally is. After that time, there's an inundation by water produced by clouds, and the entire earthly planetary system is inundated. In fact, the description is that the planetary systems up to Svargaloka are completely devastated during this pralaya. It's even described that, in the Maharloka, which is the next planetary system up, the great sages depart for higher planetary systems in vimānas due to the heat of the annihilation which is taking place below them.  

So you have this cosmological picture in which there are lower and higher planetary systems. So the earth is considered to be the middle planetary system, and above that there are various higher systems. The earth and the systems up to Svargaloka are annihilated during the pralaya. However, the earth continues to exist, but it's under the water. Lord Varāha lifts it up from the waters.  

Now one might ask, what is this earth that is lifted up? The answer turns out to be that this is the entire Bhū-maṇḍala. Thus, what is lifted is not just the earth globe as we understand it, but it's basically described in the Bhāgavatam as a disk-shaped region, which is about four billion miles in diameter. This is the same as the diameter of the inner hollow of the universe. Now, I said approximately four billion miles in diameter. In the Bhāgavatam, there are verses saying that the diameter of Bhū-maṇḍala is in fact four billion miles, or, in the units used in the Bhāgavatam, the figure given is 500 koṭi of yojanas – koṭi is 10 million. So 500 10-millions of yojanas would be the diameter of the earth. 

[9:40]

However, there is a commentary, which I believe is by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, which is cited by Śrīla Prabhupāda in the Fifth Canto, but not translated; it just places the Sanskrit there. A number of devotees have translated this over the years. It gives a description of how to calculate the diameter of Bhū-maṇḍala, by adding up the diameters of various ring-shaped oceans and dvīpas and so on and so forth. And it turns out that the diameter of Bhū-maṇḍala is a little bit less than four billion miles. There's a few hundred-thousand-miles gap between Bhū-maṇḍala and the shell of the universe. So in that commentary, Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura explains that this makes it possible for the earth to move down and sink into the Garbhodaka Ocean, because if it was of the same diameter as the shell, it would be rigidly fixed in one position. And he also said that this made it possible for Lord Varāha to lift the earth up from the Ocean. He also pointed out that this situation provided Ananta Śeṣa with something to do for the matter of supporting the earth, because if it was rigidly fixed to the shell, there would be no need for Ananta Śeṣa to support it. This was the commentary that was given by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. So that is the earth which Lord Varāha is lifting.

Let's see, what other observations there are on Lord Varāha? Well, another interesting observation: Of course, people will tend to say that it's rather hard for one to understand how this story can be related to our present concepts of reality, so I should make a few observations about that. Of course, we have illustrations of Lord Varāha lifting the earth as a globe, but it is definitely the entire Bhū-maṇḍala which is lifted. This is also described in more detail in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa, it's pointed out that, after Lord Varāha lifts the earth from the waters, then he re-establishes the continents and so forth on the surface of the earth. The idea apparently is that the divisions of the continents was sort of blurred out when the earth was under the water. So Lord Varāha re-establishes all of those divisions, for example, the divisions between the different oceans and dvīpas and so forth. 

One can ask, how does this relate to the modern conception of the earth as a globe? Śrīla Prabhupāda makes an interesting point in his purport. He says that, only under certain conditions do the planets float as weightless balls in the air. As soon as these conditions are disturbed, the planets may fall down in the Garbhodaka Ocean, which covers half of the universe. There are several places in the Bhāgavatam where Śrīla Prabhupāda refers to Bhū-maṇḍala as a system of globes floating in space or as islands floating in the ocean of air. Now the direct description which is given in the Bhāgavatam is that Bhū-maṇḍala is described as a disk, which is divided into different regions, such as the ring-shaped islands and oceans, but Śrīla Prabhupāda does in several places refer to it as though it's a whole system of globes. So this seems to be an intermediary link between our idea of the earth as one globe and the description of Bhū-maṇḍala as a disk. So there's also this description which is given of a system of globes.  

There's the question of how any of these globes could fall into the Garbhodaka Ocean. If… let’s see… I should first of all point out that even when the earth is above the level of the Garbhodaka Ocean, it is quite close to it relative to the other dimensions of the universe. Specifically, it is stated that Bhū-maṇḍala is the middle planetary system. There are seven lower planetary systems beneath Bhū-maṇḍala. The gap between each of these pairs of systems as you go down is 10,000 yojanas. That means you have a total of 70,000 yojanas to bring you to the bottom of the lower planetary systems. Then beneath that, there’s another gap. I forget the figure for that right now, but it's not very large. And then you have the Garbhodaka Ocean. In comparison, if you look at the diameter of the Bhū-maṇḍala of four billion miles, or it comes out to... I think what I said before was wrong, because I said 500 koṭi yojanas. I should say 50 koṭi yojanas – it's 500 million yojanas. Because then, if you multiply that by 8, you get 4,000 million miles, or four billion. Those are the figures that are given. But that diameter for Bhū-maṇḍala is very large compared to the distance between Bhū-maṇḍala and the surface of the ocean.  

[15:55] 

That means, if you were to make a model in which you have, let's say, a bowl filled with water representing the Garbhodaka Ocean, then the planetary systems of Bhū-maṇḍala and the seven lower systems would be like seven sheets of thin paper floating right on the surface of the water. That's how the proportions would work out. So that means the earth is very close to that ocean. Logically speaking, you would think... Oh and also, there's an interesting metaphor given in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa which describes this. And there it's described that when Lord Varāha made the earth float upon the water, it was like placing a banana leaf on the surface of the water. So you can imagine the flat leaf floating on the water surface.  

This leads to the question that, if one is standing on something in which a plane extends out, and on one side of that plane you have water, and on the other side you have outer space, then you would think that, looking into outer space, this plane should block your vision for half of the volume of the space in your vicinity. However, the astronomers will say that we can see stars in outer space in all directions. In other words, here at night, if you're standing out here in one of these fields and you look at the sky, you see the stars overhead, and you can see stars over a total angle of 180°, because the earth is blocking your vision. But, the idea is, the earth being a globe, somebody standing at the antipodal point – that is, the pole just opposite you on the earth, he's also looking at a 180° angle at different stars, but he's seeing the opposite 180° to what you're seeing. And if you put together the two things that you're seeing, it adds up to a full 360° range of vision in which you see the stars in outer space in all directions. So that point would be made concerning the earth globe.

If that is so, then how could it be that half of the universe is filled with an ocean? The basic point that I'm coming to, then, is that the descriptions in the Bhāgavatam refer to a higher-dimensional situation. Somehow or other, part of this flat surface on which we are located, in effect, is wrapped around so you can go around and look out from it, and you have the impression that you're on a complete sphere, whereas it corresponds to a section of a surface of the plane. That's basically the way it's described. Interestingly enough, in the Sūrya-siddhānta, the earth is described as a sphere. Now in the description of Bhū-maṇḍala as the plane, the lower planetary systems are planes situated beneath Bhū-maṇḍala, but in the Sūrya-siddhānta it's described that the lower planetary systems are regions inside the sphere of the earth. If you map a part of the plane to a sphere, then you map part of the lower systems into regions inside that sphere. So somehow, the arrangement of our senses is such that, in a very consistent way, we see a very small region of earth which is cut off in the form of a sphere surrounded by space on all sides. But that is part of a larger system.  

[20:00] 

Śrīla Prabhupāda explained this with an analogy in one conversation that took place in Vṛindāvana. I think in 1977, several devotees were asking him about the description in the Fifth Canto. They were saying: well, if Jambūdvīpa and Bhū-maṇḍala, which is extending beyond that, if this is a flat plane, then how do you have the experience of going around the earth, which many of us have done in jet airplanes? They were saying, suppose you stop in London, and you go around to New Delhi, then to Tokyo and Los Angeles, and New York, and then you come back to London. So how does that work using the concept of a flat plane? Śrīla Prabhupāda made the analogy that we are only seeing part of the earth. He said that just as a bull or an ox could be tied to a central pole for threshing grain, that ox is constrained by the yoke and different wooden bars and so forth so that he can only go around in a circle. In his experience, if you walk, you come around to where you started. The ox, being not very intelligent, may be bewildered by this, and so he just goes around in a circle and he thinks: that's the way things are. Perhaps – I don't know what it's like to be an ox. He may be contemplating the whole thing philosophically and not letting on.

In any case, the vast earth around him is there, but he has no access to it, because he's constrained to move in a circle. So Śrīla Prabhupāda said that, similarly, we are constrained by the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa to move within a certain spherical region of earth, and we don't actually see the entire earth. We only see a small part of it. He pointed out, for example, that we don't see the real Himalayan Mountains, and that it would not be possible for an airplane to fly over the actual Himalayas. Of course, you can consider that the Bhāgavatam says that the Himalayas are 10,000 yojanas high, which would come to 80,000 miles, at 8 miles per yojana, which is 10 times the diameter of the earth as we know it today. The earth as we know it is about 8,000 miles in diameter, so how can you have mountains then 80,000 miles high? The point then is, what we experience is a small subdivision of something that is much larger, but that larger continuum, due to the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa's energy, is basically what you could call higher-dimensional. That is, it extends in matter that we don't directly see. It's beyond our senses.  

This term higher-dimensional is really synonymous with saying that it's beyond the range of our senses, because our senses are linked up with the energy of the material world in such a way that you see only certain things, but we don't see everything. So that example of the ox illustrates that point. The yoke constrains the senses of motion of the ox, his active senses, mainly the legs, in such a way as he can only go in a circle. Whereas, if the constraint wasn't there, then the ox could go in a straight line and travel a much greater distance. Similarly, our senses potentially could experience a much greater region of the earth, but because of constraints that are imposed, we experience a limited region. So that was the idea indicated by that example.

In this higher dimensional realm, in which you have Garbhodaka Ocean and the larger earth, the Bhū-maṇḍala, within that realm this pastime of Lord Varāha took place, and Lord Varāha was able to enter into the Garbhodaka Ocean and lift up the earth. Even there you see a problem in understanding how He could do it, because if the earth really does extend right out to the edge of the shell, with a little gap, then how did Lord Varāha get down underneath in order to lift it up. It would seem it would block the entire space in which he could maneuver. But I don't think it was a problem for Lord Varāha. So those are a few observations.

[25:07] 

Interesting thing that I just ran across is that throughout the world there is mythology relating to the idea that some higher being comes down from the upper regions of the heavens and lifts up the earth from an ocean. There are stories like this all over the world. In fact, the author who is making these observations commented that the Indians of North America, Native Americans, all seem to share a basic cosmology in which you have an ocean; above the ocean there are higher planetary systems, in which some high authority is living, the Supreme Spirit or whoever it might be described; and a great personality goes down from this higher region into the ocean, and lifts up the earth. So he was making this comment about the Indians of North America. It's interesting if you consider the story of Lord Varāha. Actually, a curious point is that these different stories in the Bhāgavatam have parallels in old mythology all over the world. 

One can ask how that came about. It's certainly suggestive of strong connections. Well, one can think of the connections as working in two possible ways. Either you have the idea that there was once a civilization that at least extended its influence all over the earth, so that these stories could be carried to different parts of the earth by human beings. Or the other possibility is that you have direct connections for different parts of the earth with higher planetary systems. Either way, you have the idea of a larger system of civilization existing than is understood to exist according to modern historians and anthropologists. So you either have a celestial civilization interacting with all different parts of the earth, or you have a higher civilization here on the earth, plus a celestial civilization. 

Certainly the evidence of these different so-called mythological stories is suggestive that the different societies of the surface of the earth did not just evolve independently in their own little local neighborhoods. So that's interesting from the point of view of the Vedic conception, according to which there was a global Vedic civilization in the past, and also prior to Kali-yuga there was extensive content between the earth and higher planetary systems. It's interesting that this story of Lord Varāha also fits into that picture. Many other items described in the cosmology of the Bhāgavatam also are found all over the earth. For example, the idea of a central access mountain, namely Mt. Meru. Many different conceptions are found all over the earth in different societies.  

So I will stop there I guess and take questions. Murlivadaka?

Question:  Our senses constrain us like the ox is constrained by the yoke. So we can assume then, in the higher climates even within the system of the earthly planets, that’s on Svargaloka, they are constrained in different ways. Their senses can perceive other things. And then you can further... Maharloka, Tapoloka, etc., that they also have a different vision of reality, because their senses are constrained differently. Their senses maybe offer different energies or I don't know.

Answer:  Well, I presume it's something like that. Certainly, the demigods in Svargaloka are all conditioned souls, so their senses are constrained in different ways. As a general principle, you can say that. We may not have details how exactly their senses are able to function. It does appear that in higher planetary systems there's a lot of communication between different systems. For example, in Svargaloka, it may be that Indra runs into trouble with the demons. They've acquired some power and are attacking the heavenly planets. Indra and other demigods will go up to Brahmaloka to petition Lord Brahmā to intervene and save their situation. It would appear that they have access even to Brahmaloka, at least as visitors. Whereas, we don't have access even to Svargaloka, what to speak of Brahmaloka. Our astronomers using their gross instruments cannot detect Svargaloka. All they see is empty space and radiating points that they call stars and that they've theorized about.

[30:54]

Q:  You were mentioning about the wrap-around plane. We've heard this theory before in the description of the hollow earth. So has that evolved from some specific mythology, or some... of course, there's supposedly some actual perception of this, but [unclear] is there anything?

A:  Oh, the Hollow Earth theory?

Q:  Right.

A:  Yes, there are various Hollow Earth theories. One of them says that… well, you've probably seen that there's some holes at the polar regions, and you go just sort of over the edge and down on the inside, so that there's a world in there. So you could say that there is an analogy between the Fifth Canto cosmology and the Hollow Earth theories, in the sense that we do say there are subterranean inhabited regions, and of course the Bhāgavatam describes the earth as a plane, and the lower planetary systems as planes beneath it. But the Sūrya-siddhānta describes the earth as a globe and the lower planetary systems as... well, it says they are located within the concave strata of the earth. That's the phrase used in the translation I have. That makes it sound sort of like the Hollow Earth theory. In a sense, you would say we are Hollow-earthers, in a sense.   

We refer to Bila-svarga, which means “the heaven in a hole.” It's a rather interesting phrase, because bila means a hole or a subterranean region, and svarga means heaven. So the idea is that within the earth there is a heaven, a very heavenly region. In fact, it's described that, in many ways, Bila-svarga is more opulent than Svargaloka of Indra. By the way, there are descriptions of similar things in other cultures. That's another whole topic, the idea of levels of underworlds, some of which are heavenly. You can find that popping up in many different cultures all over the world also. Yeah?

Q:  Sometimes when we try to convey [unclear]... dimensions so that we can understand. You might do something like with the example of the sphere and intersecting a plane. You can understand that the intersection of the sphere and the plane is a circle, and then, if there's [unclear] people living on that plane, then that's what they see – they don't see the sphere. So you're talking about a wrap-around concept, and you make reference to different dimensions. Is there any kind of analogy that can help us better understand how this might be.

A:  In terms of geometric analogies? Well, let's see. I have to see if I can think of something right off. I do not have a good model myself as to how exactly you relate the sphere to the plane. But from a geometrical point of view, you'd have to do it in higher dimensions, not within just three dimensions. If you try to do it in just three dimensions, you can take a part of the plane, bulge it up, and make a sphere out of it, but you're going to have a neck which connects to the plane. Now some people have proposed this. I've even seen diagrams. They claim that the neck is to be found down in Antarctica. According to that, if you went to Antarctica, you'd see what in effect would look like a gigantic column extending up into outer space, and that's the neck. But you don't see that in Antarctica, according to what we hear. I haven't been down there myself. In fact, I only take it on faith that there is such a place as Antarctica. [laughter] But then, I only take it on faith that there is such a place as South Africa, too, without having been there. Certainly that would be a rather awkward conception. But to relate the globe to the plane, one has to go into a higher dimension of geometry. But I can't give the details of how that would work right off-hand. Yeah?

[35:41]

Q:  We heard that, in the course of [unclear]... it goes through the center of the earth, and we've heard also that Rāvaṇa went through to Brazil. We've also heard that the Rādhā-Dāmodara Temple in Secund is the center of the earth. Can you comment?

A:  In the Bhāgavatam, there is a description that Lord Brahmā was visualizing the universe in terms of the wheel, and that the center was in the forest of Naimiṣāraṇya, as I recall. Wheel, of course, is cakra. Perhaps that's what you're referring to there. Certainly, if you look at the disk of Bhū-maṇḍala, that is... it's shaped like a wheel – it's a disk. The center is Jambūdvīpa. Of course, the way it's described in the Bhāgavatam, the physical center is the center of Mt. Meru, whereas Naimiṣāraṇya is located in Bhārata-varṣa, so it would be a bit off-center. I don't know how one reconciles that, but it is described in the Bhāgavatam that Lord Brahmā was visualizing the center as being in Naimiṣāraṇya. As far as the other points, including going down through to Brazil from there, I don't really know. One hears occasionally about tunnels that go to Brazil. Śrīla Prabhupāda spoke of such things. You can find it in different places in folio, for example.

Q:  [unclear].

A:  An expedition?

Q:  Yes, [unclear]

A:  Yes, that description. That was supposed to go from... 

Q:   [unclear] Puerto Rico.

A:  The Pyrenees to Puerto Rico. It was supposed to be...

Q:  ...how all of those Spanish people came to Puerto Rico, right?

Audience:  Right.

A:  It was supposed to be glowing with green light on the inside. [laughter]

A:  And the story was, somebody drove a car through it.

Audience:  ...with enough gas.

A:  They ran out of gas?

Audience:  They had enough gas. They planned it.

A:  They took a big [unclear]... [laughter]... Well, I never did shut that one off. But, this idea of tunnels to Brazil is there. Yeah?

Q:  You said Lord Varāha is a lila incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, and you mentioned Svāyambhuva Manu. Lord Caitanya describes in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, instructions to Sanātana Gosvāmī, how there are 14 Manus in each day of Brahmā, there's 420 in a month, and 5,040 a year. And in one lifetime, there's 504,000 Manu incarnations. He said all of them are considered incarnations. Yet, still, in the description in the Bhāgavatam, it is stated that during the reign of Svāyambhuva Manu the incarnation is Yajña, Yajña-puruṣa, and there's different ones for each month. There seems to be some confusion about whether the actual Manu is the incarnation or if there is an incarnation during each manvantara.

A:  There is the [unclear]. Yes, I haven't looked into that lately. A few years back I remember that that question came up and I seem to recall that the indication was that a manvantara incarnation was not necessarily the same as the Manu, but is an incarnation of Viṣṇu, who corresponds to that Manu period. He's the manvantara incarnation for that Manu. That's what I recall. I think there's the conclusion in that discussion. That would be the point that, according to that, Svāyambhuva Manu is not the manvantara incarnation, but he's the Manu. That's what I recall. Yeah?

Q:  This is kind of related. I was listening to a tape of Prabhupāda, and he was talking about the theory of evolution. He was saying Darwin had made a lot of mistakes, but the theory of evolution is [unclear] in the Padma Purana it is explained. I haven't read the Padma Purana, but I'd like to know... he said, first, there would be an aquatic age, and then this, and then that. Are you familiar with that?

[40:26]  

A:  Yes, I've run across that reference. To my knowledge, Śrīla Prabhupāda is taking the word evolution and applying that to be transmigration of the soul through different species. And he gives the sequence of transmigration of the soul as going from aquatics to plants to, well, [unclear], which would mean reptiles and worms and so forth, to beasts – in other words, mammals – the birds, uncivilized humans, and civilized humans.  

Now if you look at that as an evolutionary sequence of transformation of the bodies of those organisms, that sounds very similar to what the scientists are saying or what Darwin would have proposed. Namely, if you start off with life in the ocean, then life crawls out on the land. The first life on the land would be plants, because until plants were there, nothing else could live on the land. You have aquatics, and vegetation on the land, and then you have amphibians and reptiles, they would come next. Then mammals develop. Then, birds come before mammals -- well, no that's not really true. Primitive mammals come before birds, according to their system. Then the more advanced mammals come after the birds. And then finally, at the very end, you have the evolution of man. So that's the scientists' sequence. That seems to correspond to the order given in the Padma Purana. But if you look at that order in evolutionary terms, it refers to transmigration of the soul through the different species, and the species are considered to be fixed. So there the idea is that it's like a person who, let's say, moves to different apartments. He goes from one apartment to another. It's not that the apartments are changing from one to another. That would be the idea. I guess we should stop there.  

All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!